tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post1127238348407660946..comments2024-03-26T07:19:50.901+00:00Comments on Dr Grumble: Brickbats and bouquetsDr Grumblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04417731064007601504noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-71865257197151775102010-12-12T13:24:28.772+00:002010-12-12T13:24:28.772+00:00Back on the main topic, useful feedback from the s...Back on the main topic, useful feedback from the students is rare, and positive feedback rarer still. So something that is both is definitely to be treasured.<br /><br />I did get a couple of Christmas cards from my tutorial groups last week, though, which was quite sweet.<br /><br />Though they may have been taking the mickey.Dr Austhttp://draust.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-86214664100024490682010-12-11T14:50:28.535+00:002010-12-11T14:50:28.535+00:00Somewhat in keeping with what you say, the single ...Somewhat in keeping with what you say, the single thing that made the most difference to the quality of PBL was the quality of the explanations in the tutors' "crib" book. I have been lucky in that the one I have mostly used, and which I started with as a PBL tutor, had been written by a veteran medic-turned-anatomist-turned-part-time-GP. It had then been refined by a committee including a veteran physiologist, a veteran pharmacologist, and a pathologist. So all in all it was pretty good. [Other chunks of the course, with less well written cribs, were a far harder job as PBL and required concomitantly more specialist B/G knowledge and experience.]<br /><br />The upshot of this was that as a "green" tutor you at least had (hopefully) an extensive series of explanations to fall back on. If the students were half-bright, they would "chase down" clinical stuff from the internet, from Underwood, and from other textbooks. Then you could, where necessary, "flesh out" and correct their explanations.<br /><br />It also had the unintended benefit of teaching scientist tutors more of the general science underpinning medicine, and something about medicine too. So I know that I got a lot out of it in the first few years of being a tutor -not so sure about the students.<br /><br />Also bearing out what you say, in the first few years we used to have "clinical co-tutors", typically consultants who would drop in for 30 min a week to clarify students' more "clinical" questions. My "clinical co-tutors" were all A&E consultants, who to a man or woman used to run their 1/2-hr like an old-school "bedside quiz the students" session.Dr Austhttp://draust.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-72598407534431638442010-12-11T12:12:15.678+00:002010-12-11T12:12:15.678+00:00I followed the instructions and found it very frus...I followed the instructions and found it very frustrating. Having lost all faith in the educationalists who thought they knew everything I abandoned it altogether.<br /><br />I suppose it adds variety and it certainly enables people who know nothing to teach. But it is just not a good way of using the time of somebody who does know something. It is also very easy to do. To teach well you have to prepare and work hard. Problem based learning involves very little effort - from the 'teacher' anyway.<br /><br />PBL seems to live on somewhere in the Grumble academy but, I think, in a much reduced form and still subject to much derision. Fortunately the teaching fashions appear to have moved on.<br /><br />We all knew this was essentially rotten when it started. It was an emperor's clothes thing.Dr Grumblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04417731064007601504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-45720091182283050332010-12-11T11:54:00.247+00:002010-12-11T11:54:00.247+00:00"One of my colleagues had a wonderful way of ..."One of my colleagues had a wonderful way of describing [problem-based learning] - along the lines of "people with no knowledge being taught by people who didn't know anything". ..."<br /><br />------------------------------------<br /><br />Heh. No comment. <br /><br />*cough*<br /><br />Actually I will say that, over the years PBL has been running at Dr Aust's Univ of Grimecastle, the style has changed from what we started with: <br /><br /><i>"Say nothing and answer all questions with questions, so the tutor needs little specialist knowledge"</i><br /><br />- to something much more like:<br /><br /><i>"Steer discussion if appropriate & intervene if you think that is what is needed, so the more the tutor knows the better it works"</i><br /><br />Interestingly this has never really been a formal policy change, more a gradual switch to what teachers think actually <i>works</i>.Dr Austhttp://draust.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-83030704787033462082010-12-07T09:47:43.979+00:002010-12-07T09:47:43.979+00:00I have been through some of that training, Ray, wi...I have been through some of that training, Ray, with the problem-based learning which I have now abandoned because it did not seem a good use of my time. One of my colleagues had a wonderful way of describing it - along the lines of "people with no knowledge being taught by people who didn't know anything". Medical training at all levels has been damaged by inference from so-called experts.Dr Grumblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04417731064007601504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-8891233311894953902010-12-07T09:40:11.267+00:002010-12-07T09:40:11.267+00:00Oh dear. You're doomed. Most teacher training ...Oh dear. You're doomed. Most teacher training courses nowadays start off by telling you how knowing your subject isn't important. Your 'role' is as a 'learning facilitator' . . . yadda yadda.<br /><br />Personally, if I want to learn something, whether it's a language, a musical instrument or how to fly a plane, I prefer my teacher/instructor to actually be a 'master' of their subject. Then it's down to me to learn from them.<br /><br />I left grammar school over 40 years ago, but often think of Jerry Radford and Fred Lisle. Both were masters of their subject who managed to trigger understanding and a joy in the topic during further maths 'A' level. Neither would teach in today's environment. Just as well they're long gone.<br /><br />Ray.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com