tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post5282990097584859507..comments2024-03-26T07:19:50.901+00:00Comments on Dr Grumble: TobaccogateDr Grumblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04417731064007601504noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-39806027704006570292012-11-11T18:33:40.457+00:002012-11-11T18:33:40.457+00:00Asbestos, smoking, x-rays, Genetically Modified c...Asbestos, smoking, x-rays, Genetically Modified crops, Wireless technology, the chemicals used to spray crops - its all the same. The Power of the corporations and Multinationals means it takes years to prove the harmful effects of these products. Meanswhile millions suffer ill health effects while the scientists who speak out get threatened and silenced.<br />SianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-65208035939336862372012-10-28T23:34:14.406+00:002012-10-28T23:34:14.406+00:00Nicely O/T, A&E. Just to drag it back to the E...Nicely O/T, A&E. Just to drag it back to the EU, there is <a href="http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:024:0079:0080:EN:PDF" rel="nofollow">the Labate Case</a>, of course.<br /><br />"Manifestly unfounded" was the term, I seem to remember. ;)<br /><br />You see, that is legal certainty. What you posted was "unsubstantiated guesses" from a carefully selected source. Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-27974617105936589472012-10-28T16:10:12.595+00:002012-10-28T16:10:12.595+00:00So, 'they are unsubstantiated guesses' or ...So, 'they are unsubstantiated guesses' or 'the burden of disease caused by passive smoking in children in the UK, is substantial. Passive smoking results in over 165,000 new episodes of disease, 300,000 primary care contacts, 9,500 hospital admissions, at least 200 cases of bacterial meningitis, and about 40 sudden infant deaths each year' (from p180 in the report linked to by Dr G)'.<br />Additionally, 'Passive smoking is an involuntary exposure that is directly harmful to children’s health, and increases the risk that the child will become a smoker'.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO1nCuVQIeg&feature=related<br /><br /> <br /><br /> the a&e charge nursenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-18072284222500699912012-10-27T23:38:37.785+01:002012-10-27T23:38:37.785+01:00I doubt it will help but for anyone interested thi...I doubt it will help but for anyone interested this document addresses passive smoking and children.<br /><br />http://bookshop.rcplondon.ac.uk/contents/pub305-e37e88a5-4643-4402-9298-6936de103266.pdfDr Grumblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459592334604944530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-63779389059305258882012-10-27T23:03:52.003+01:002012-10-27T23:03:52.003+01:00Estimates are not facts. Indeed, they are unsubsta...Estimates are not facts. Indeed, they are unsubstantiated guesses based on statistics that do not even consider the actual cause of death. Smoking "attributable" does not mean causation. It's an assumption only, but it is not categorically true. SIDS is called SIDS -- and I know this might shock some people -- because <b>nobody</b> knows what the baby died from. So, please, spare me the estimates. I do not require anyone's name. I only require a certified cause of death of a child or even an adult from ETS / SHS exposure. Not speculation. Not anecdotal. A redacted coroner's reports will do nicely. Just one, guys. Please. Just one. Is it really so much to ask for one?<br /><br />I'm not being sarcastic, nor facetious here, either. I'm asking, politely (using nice language and everything). I'm telling you, people are making these figures up to support their anti-smoking agenda. It's not factual. It's make-believe. Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-54131173464982275072012-10-27T22:43:54.826+01:002012-10-27T22:43:54.826+01:00So wrong, on so many levels. I thought you said yo...So wrong, on so many levels. I thought you said you had done research?<br /><br />Firstly, you didn't find out that the directive was bludgeoned through despite a consultation where the overwhelming majority of responses were of the opinion that the snus ban should be lifted (quite rightly, for the overall health of the EU). One of your tweets bemoaned the way "democratic process" is subverted by "companies with money". You might try to think about which "companies with money" might be interested in seeing the snus ban stay despite democratic objections.<br /><br />You also fail to notice that Swedish lung cancer rates are by a hefty margin the lowest in Europe. Probably because they have by far the lowest smoking rates in Europe. They're the only country in Europe which is allowed to sell snus. Go figure.<br /><br />You mention the burglary. So please explain why you seem to be insinuating that it is a tobacco industry plot, when Swedish Match made their complaint in March IIRC. Would it not make sense, then, that such a burglary would happen then. You know, when SM knew that these things were going to be investigated? And not the day after all the dirt came tumbling out and Dalli was wheelbarrowed out.<br /><br />Hmm, publicity. Those of us (yes, that's me with my hand up) who believe that assaults on tobacco have gone far too far, are asking the very same question. We would LOVE the British press to pick up on this story because - reading between the lines - Dalli was shoved out of the EU faster than his legs could carry him. The EU is unrepentantly and hysterically opposed to tobacco in any form. Do you really think Barroso would be as trenchant as he is if it were big tobacco pulling the strings? I mean, seriously?<br /><br />Perhaps your conspiracy theory is able to imagine Barroso as being in the pay of tobacco. But The Guardian too? And the Independent who have their own cozy nest of compliant journos in regular contact with ASH etc.?<br /><br />I think the best thing you said in this post was that you hadn't heard of John Dalli. It's why you have written something, with all due respect, which is like someone who stumbled into an area where you have not even a basic understanding. <br /><br />It IS well-written though, I can applaud that wholeheartedly. And it's clear that you're genuine, but please don't get carried away like the one-eyed anti-tobacco lobby because there is clearly a lot to come out yet. It's the MSM's job to write junk without checking facts, bloggers tend to look into things more deeply. <br /><br />Personally, I'm on the edge of my seat and my legs are dancing like a teenager in anticipation of what's to come. And that's from someone who is from the opposite end of the spectrum from you. That should tell you something. ;)<br />Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-68903364890004586872012-10-27T22:21:42.192+01:002012-10-27T22:21:42.192+01:00Nobody is ever going to provide the name of a chil...Nobody is ever going to provide the name of a child who died from passive smoking because you can't ever day that a particular child did. But thats not the same as saying it never happened.Dr Grumblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459592334604944530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-82981635397476561052012-10-27T22:21:08.385+01:002012-10-27T22:21:08.385+01:00Jay - according to american figures 'In 2005, ...Jay - according to american figures 'In 2005, it was estimated that exposure to secondhand smoke kills more than 3,000 adult nonsmokers from lung cancer, approximately 46,000 from coronary heart disease, and an estimated 430 newborns from sudden infant death syndrome' (foreword pi).<br />http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/secondhandsmoke/fullreport.pdf<br />the a&e charge nursenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25200961.post-40494108536752802222012-10-27T21:54:43.926+01:002012-10-27T21:54:43.926+01:00You wrote: "Children are still dying from the...You wrote: "Children are still dying from the consequences of secondhand cigarette smoke and lung cancer [...]"<br /><br />Find one example of a child who died from second-hand smoke. Because I've looked, and looked. I've sent FOIs. I've talked to GPs. I've talked to those in tobacco control. And you know what? No one, ever, has provided one. Because it's never happened. <br /><br />You may wish to qualify your blog post with verifiable facts -- it's considered good form, after all. Are you able to do so, or are you just going to propagandise the second-hand smoke issue with baseless assertions?<br /><br />Get the real facts, please, and kindly do not write based on emotive arguments that are designed to make people feel rather than think.Jaynoreply@blogger.com